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Controversial Opinions Thread: The R.E.M. Thread for sensible people who are also idiots

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  • yeah but is it controversial to rank your favorite academy award winning films
  • 1. Rocky
  • try the year after, Kyle
  • you really should, it's the best film ever made (at least at this point in time)
  • the king of limbs is much, much better than pablo honey. it's not even close. bloom, lotus flower, and separator are all really great tracks, and the rest of the songs are pretty solid as well.
  • the best film of all time is clearly Die Hard, Nick.
  • the year of the kyle
  • TTK Dont make me get contreversial on Woody Allen, because I have my laundry list of grievances
  • please do, I like hearing opinions which differ to my own.
  • I already shat on woody a few times so ttk should be used to it
  • when someone has so many identifiable tropes which are repeated through out their films, it's easy to criticise, but it's also easy to love.
  • edited July 2015
    In the 80s and early 90s, he was willing to experiment with form, which gave different spins on those identifiable tropes. 

    Let's pretend that he never made a good movie after that. (Which is untrue, but for the sake of argument). He still had a great 20 year run filled with valuable cinema. That's rare.
  • that's one of my reasons I love his work, I know people whose favourite film maker is David Lynch, they have only 10 or so films to choose from.

    I have over 40, about more than half of which are quality.
  • making one great movie is hard, more than a dozen is genius
  • My issues with Allen stem from perception of his movies aging poorly on a fundamental level.  Not due to his abilities as a filmaker which are quite god but rather tropes and archetypes that take away from his core movie.  I'll use Crimes and misdemeanors as an example: I initially enjoyed the movie but viewed cliff as an unreliable narrator and actually sympathized more with the murdrer because he was willing to save his marriage and work on his life.  However this was not Allens intention as a filmaker and storyteller, rather desiring to show the injustice of the universe making the ending bittersweet rather than happy as I thought.  Part of this disconnect comes from Allen's use of the nice guys finish last trope, which I truly don't take seriously anymore thus skewing my interpretation of his characters.  He uses this trope often and while he is clever about it in films like Shadows and Fog, he is still using an archaic plot device to convey meaning.  This brings me to my next point which also ages poorly, his depiction of women.  Mia farrow is a common offender in his films though not the only one, and she is often very passive.  Her turn in Purple Rose of Cairo where she has literally no arc.  This brings me to my final point which is that while Allen may be a great filmaker he is lacking as a storyteller.  In his movies his plot and charcters arre mainly there to serve the theme and the motif, often winding up with movies that effectively close thematically but often fail to deliver a satisfying ending.  I can see how his films appeal to a certain sensibility but they don't reach me. Sorry for the wall of text there
  • no, it's cool. there's a lot to unpack there and I will probably need some time to fully respond to the whole post, but just in passing,

    you haven't seen Alice, have you. His film from 1990?

    He almost addresses your qualms on women in that one, with Mis Farrow's character having much more... "balls", I guess you could say. She's given an arc, and has something she fights for.

    I will concede that a lot of the films are about a motif or a theme, but I'm fine with that if I understand the theme, and the film is rich enough to keep my attention.
  • Ok i'll check oout Alice
  • you may run into something else you'll have problems with (cough cough slight racism)
  • Brian Wilson presents Smile (2004) is better than Pet Sounds.
  • and since smile sessions is better than brian wilson presents smile, by the transitive property, smile sessions > pet sounds!
  • edited July 2015
    Smile Sessions are not better than the Brian Wilson version. It's literally just demos from the long ago sessions from an album that was never finished. Brian Wilson presents Smile is a cohesive, flowing album from beginning to end, and it sounds fantastic. It sounds like pretty close to what it probably would have sounded like many years ago, except with modem production. Just my opinion.
  • edited July 2015
    sure, brian wilson presents smile sounds better because it was produced in 2004. if you're judging an album's quality from how modern and clean its production sounds, you're going to have a pretty severe contemporary bias. but brian wilson's vocals are far worse on presents smile than on sessions--his age has not been kind to his voice's clarity and fullness, not to mention his range (he can't hit most of the high notes on the 2004 album, and it shows). this is huge to me, as his voice carries the album. and aside from quality, the arrangements are very similar, and i personally don't mind the fuzzier sound of the sessions recordings--especially because they sound so authentic

    and no, the sessions are not just a collection of demos. sessions includes a lot of finished (or mostly finished) material interspersed with demos, and the album is, because it was recorded at the time of the record's inception, a lot closer to how it would have originally sounded. i mean, just compare the two versions of "surf's up." the sessions version is so superior--the 2004 wilson sounds stilted and dull compared to his 60s self. 

    that said, i'm glad to have both versions. it's nice to hear the cleaner 2004 arrangements, which give me even more appreciation for what the original smile album should have been

    edit: i just compared the versions of "vega-tables," and yeah, i just think the sessions version is much better. the ending is wonderful and is completely absent in the 2004 version, which includes a lot of extra effects that i don't think add very much to the song. sounds perfectly good to me in its earlier form.

  • All Along the Watchtower is a good song but it ain't all that.

    Voodoo Child (Slight Return) is much better.
  • Voodoo Chile is better than both
  • I haven't listened to Electric Ladyland in full so I dunno
  • I agree inasmuch as I think Slight Return is a far superior track, but I'm still a big fan of All Along The Watchtower. Like Robby says, though, Voodoo Chile slays.


  • Condoms are overrated
  • Hahahahaha whaaaat
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