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Controversial Opinions Thread: The R.E.M. Thread for sensible people who are also idiots



  • edited September 2015
    That was it 8-X
  • edited September 2015
    @kyle tmt gave rtj2 a 2.5/5
  • edited September 2015
    oh yeah didn't they accuse them of misogyny or something stupid like that in the review?
  • edited September 2015
    I think their more general point was that it does a bad job of being socially concious political rap whch is a point I agree with. I love RTJ2 but I feel like sometimes they get treated as if what they're saying is more insightful than it really is
  • yeah toon is right and that review was right. the narrative that they're this super important political thing is bullshit when the whole thing is based around cartoon macho goofiness
  • edited September 2015
    Not to say they aren't political sometimes, I just wouldn't use political as the dominant adjective
  • also the borders of how we categorize art are fluid and continually moving in ways that are impossible to express, i doubt this thread will be capable of settling that conversation
  • My question is this -- would the band themselves characterize them as politically charged or was it people's perceptions that did that?

    A lot of that record is really goofy and I would assume they know that.
  • I mean, for me just the way they're politically charged is the problem, regardless of intention/perception. There's a flatness of tone to both albums that it doesn't allow for the more interesting, varied picture you get from one of killer mike's solo mixtapes or whatever. 
    I guess basically I'm fine with them being successful and making money but p4k aoty seems like a bit much idk who cares
  • if it makes you feel any better d'angelo would have surely gotten AOTY had he released his album two weeks earlier
  • edited September 2015
    I can't agree with sentiment, maybe it's because I've never been able to fully enjoy or find myself really pulled into a D'angelo album. I listened to Black Messiah when it dropped and then proceeded to delete it shortly after. There's been an attempt or two to revisit it, however it always ends up being a recycle bin classic. Similar results have been had when it's come to his other projects. 


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  • i didn't make any assessment on the album's quality. p4k just would have given it AOTY given the massive hype & praise and their own 9.4 rating (their highest of the year)
  • p4k looks around the album generally because not everyone can actually listen to music #checkyourpriviledge
    edited September 2015
    did we reach a satisfactory end to the discussion on what is and is not art?

    or is it futile to attempt to reach an end? I felt it was neutered too soon and the rtj detour kind of took over.

    all in all, for me, creative endeavour = art. and to start making delineations would be a little elitist.
  • dang i really wanted to like inverted31s because of his username (El-P reference)
  • edited September 2015
    also i started reading this review and it literally takes the first two paragraphs to dissect the phrase "I'm finna bang this bitch the fuck out" and it goes on to be hypersensitive towards every instance of dick or cunt on the album

    this is music criticism now? because this is the puritan nonsense I'd find on some hypersensitive feminist blog

    fuck this website
    edited September 2015
    I could never discount any of these websites entirely because I always find good stuff from them.

    I mean sure Pitchfork has shitty reviews, but I found a bunch of great french bands from that recent feature they did.

    Sure TMT has weird self absorbed opinions and talk about the context of the music rather than the music itself, but they've pointed me down the path of some great records,

    I figure that if someone was to show me great stuff, I'd be willing to put up with punishment for the occasional moment of greatness, especially if the "punishment" was able to be ignored.
  • that's great but they picked someone to review RTJ2 that sounds like they've never listened to a single hip hop album so that's sort of a deal breaker for me
  • it does sound like TMT likes to throw curve balls to its writers

    like I pitched to be a writer there a year or so back, and said my favourite genres were electronic, folk, jazz, pop, etc. (that was my first mistake, they probably wanted me to say I DON'T BELIEVE IN GENRES, FCK YOUR SYSTEM)

    I feel that if I would have gotten that gig, the first record they'd give me to review would be like a metal or harsh noise record.

    It's an interesting move and does create dissonance amongst the large amount of praise that records like RTJ2 and Currents gets. 
    In a way I see it as less of a contrarian review and more just trying to have an other side to the unanimous praise. 
    I like the variety that they can give to the different opinions.

    Or at least I'd like to think that.
  • you can't criticize people having a double standard for content in rap then turn around and say "but it's rap!" whenever anyone has a specific criticism. I hate simpleminded thinkpiecey art crit as much as the next person but this is not that, it makes points and it backs up points. if you disagree with them then you disagree with them, but throwing around antifeminist buzzwords doesn't make you any better than them.
    anything a human does that you call "art" is art. like everything, it's a social construct, it's all made up.
  • edited September 2015
    can you point out what antifeminist buzz words I'm throwing around?
  • there's nothing I'm saying that's antifeminist, what I am saying is that this is a crock of horseshit:

    "But before delving any further, let’s stop to consider that introductory phrase just a little bit more. “I’m finna bang this bitch the fuck out” is the studio-ad-lib-as-locker-room pep talk, a homosocial ritual wherein power is consolidated through denigration of the feminine. It’s an honest presentation of the ways men revel in their physical and social privileges when there aren’t any women around, and as such, it sets the tone not for righteous, radical anger, but for the reinforcement of the status quo. This language of hypermasculine aggression is hardly new, yet over the 39-minute span of the record, El-P and Killer Mike offer up countless gleeful additions to its vernacular"
  • "hypersensitive" "puritan" all you're saying is that it's bullshit because it takes time to consider what words mean, I think on a fundamental level you're objecting to the act of analyzing thematic content and not the specific conclusions being drawn, you're mischaracterizing and misreading and I don't think you're really in a position to call someone else oversensitive.
  • edited September 2015
    from my vantage point it seems like this writer is asserting that any usage of vernacular like "bitch" "dicks" or "pussies" is always suspect of concern no matter what the context. it sounds a little more like glorified word policing to me than genuine analysis (he calls out "walk naked backwards through a field of dicks" for god's sake)

    and i fail to see how i'm being oversensitive in any way
  • edited September 2015
    Also, on the vinyl version, Love Again has an extra verse about cunnilingus by female rapper Gangsta Boo. It's pretty rad, tbh. 
  • edited September 2015
    it's on the digital version now, i think it was only initially released without it

    i'll give y'all that "Love Again" would sound kinda suspect without it (and RTJ have admitted to that themselves) but i don't see the criticism apply once Boo enters the picture
  • all due respect, I really do think you're letting your preconceptions of what the writer must be like take over your understanding of the actual content of the review, but I'm not gonna go further down this road because it's not important
  • edited September 2015
    it's actually the opposite: I'm forming what I think of the writer by the content of the review

    edit: scratch that, by his word it seems the writer is familiar with Mike and El's previous work so I'm wrong in that regard. and actually I don't know anything about the writer so I'm mostly combating the content of the review here
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