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P4K Predictions & General Music Criticism Thread



  • Oh yeah I totally agree im just including kanye to be diplomatic
  • i don't want to be seen as defending Kanye because i'm not, there's just something that's not connecting for me in what shit people choose to pick up
  • edited June 2018
    um i dunno i kinda think philosophy without tangible implementation is just brain masturbation. it's easy to be like "WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE CARE ABOUT WHAT I CARE ABOUT" the issues that effect everyone are different and you can define the "system" as the problem in so far as the system produces everything so it is inherently the source of all problems
  • “He's only thinking freely in that his thoughts are free from books, knowledge, socioeconomics and reality.”

  • i don't know if we need a better philosophical underpinning, we need policy that makes people's lives better
  • yea i must agree that was a sick a burn, credit where credit is due
  • i laughed
  • also don't disagree with a single word
  • Also no idea why Gira or XXX are brought up, those are two vastly different cases that have nothing to do with Kanye. (Or each other, really; Gira does not have the reputation for violence against women that XXX already has.)
  • “the issues that effect everyone are different and you can define the "system" as the problem in so far as the system produces everything so it is inherently the source of all problems”
    Yeah exactly so shouldn’t that be what gets adressed?
  • edited June 2018
    Also idk where u got philosophy I’m talking understanding the way the state, production and society organize themselves and effect eachother. If you think understanding that isn’t important to making people’s lives better thats a pretty radical claim imo
  • @shooty i'm saying that to some extent it's a meaningless abstraction, at the end of the day people care about the issues that effect them. i think any system of governance the depends on any philosophy will be flawed, at the end of the day we just have to identify problems and attempt to fix them using the best available evidence and not any abstract principles that tend to look more like faith than fact
  • edited June 2018
    How do you escape abstraction? Is there really no use of abstractions like “the economy” or better yet “the people” or better yet “problems”?
  • Gira i brought up because i had a conversation with a dude a couple weeks ago where he said he wasn't going to listen to the new Kanye but Swans was his favorite band and he listened to them constantly and it just felt like an unequal application of principles
  • R Kelly is maybe a better foil, as I said
  • but I don't know, the more i think about it the more pedantic my argument feels
  • Also the view you’re espousing is absolutely a philosophy, its utilitarianism!
  • @shooty i'm saying if your scope is too broad, it looses it's ability to say something
  • people are motivated by things they feel they can relate to, i think it's silly to ask someone whose working three minimum wage jobs to get by to care about as abstract a notion as "neoliberalism". they might but it's not like they're drinking the kool-aid if they don't
  • edited June 2018
    If you’re working 3 minimim wage jobs to get by you are in precisely the ideal position to care about capitalism.
  • edited June 2018
    you are in the precise position to feel the effects of it, but understanding the philosophical underpinning of something takes time and energy that a lot of people just don't have. i wouldn't be reading "The Wealth of Nations", hell i'm not working three jobs and i still won't read the wealth of nations
  • so my point just being, if someone said "hey let's raise minimum wage so you only need to work one job" or "hey let's have a federal jobs guarantee" i'd be like "hell yea"
  • but if someone was like "hey let's be anarcho-communists" i'd probably be like "what the fuck are you talking about?"
  • also even if we lived in a socialist utopia with very low inequality and a wide safety net, Kanye West would still be an idiot
  • nvm this is a waste of time you’re straw manning l8r
  • i don't think i am, maybe i just don't understand the point you're making
  • edited June 2018
    R. Kelly has gotten heat man. I don't understand your point in reference to my takedown of Kanye's recent releases. Kanye's lyrics more recently are less humorous and contain more of these conservative Jaden Smith esque takes on life which makes his music harder to listen to for me. It's ingrained into the music. I can't listen to certain R. Kelly tracks either without connecting the music to the persona but most of music is just about general freaky lovemaking stuff. You're just bringing up people who have done worst things as if that makes me feel better about Kanye. That's the equivalent of me telling you I had a shit day and then you comparing my day to a kid in Uganda or Burma. I don't even know how you're gauging backlash, no one you named is more popular right now than Kanye so maybe you need to look at on a scale. Think of the most popular Jewish figure in America and then think about the backlash that person would receive if they started spreading alt right talking points and publicly retweeting shit from Richard Spencer, and finally he or she implies Jews went into the camps by choice.
  • it's not about making people feel better about Kanye, i'm down with saying "fuck Kanye." it just weirds me out when people say "fuck Kanye" and are down to boycott (not saying this is you, since you've made it clear you believe one can separate art from artist) him but don't boycott other artists who have done worse things
  • but overall yea, i think i lost that argument so points well taken
  • i want to make it clear, i was never implying his comments weren't offensive because of course they are
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