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  • I finished Ulysses by james joyce today
  • That is, I finished reading after the second chapter
  • I totally believe that its probably one of the best books of all time and already got some sense of that in the first chapter but in the choice between reading Ulysses and reading five other full sized books id rather read the five other full sized books
  • I also made the mistake of buying the origional unproofed version which I didnt think would be a big deal but it is
  • ooo . someone was being ambitious.

    but i agree. i'd rather read other books.
  • edited April 2016
    I sometimes get sad that I just don't have the bandwidth (or aptitude, for that matter) to read everything I'd like to.

    I just finished The Name of The Wind by Patrick Rothfuss, which I enjoyed but it makes the same story-padding mistakes in pacing that most other modern fantasy makes. Reading Dune now, and Herbert's prose is noticeably duller than Rothfuss'.
  • what would an example of "story-padding mistakes in pacing that most modern fantasy make" be?
  • i wish i had another life where i could spend it all reading modern fantasy but my lack of philological knowledge haunts me to compunction.
  • edited April 2016
    *includes spoilers for The Name of The Wind*
    This is subjective, of course, but spending such a large portion of the book with Kvothe at the University is a perfect example of story padding. I don't feel like the amount of character growth and plot development was proportional to the amount of time spent there, and I think the same ground could've been covered in a more efficient way. I mean, it makes sense that Kvothe would linger on what he probably considers his "glory days", but it still felt stretched out to me.

    Maybe I was expecting the book to be more of a contained story, and at the end Rothfuss (via Kvothe) makes it sound like this largely laid the groundwork for the actual story of what made Kvothe such an infamous character in this world. It's probably the reader equivalent of saying "oohh, shiny!" to all of the elements of story I was interested in (uhhh, more scrael please, i love fantasy horror) and impatiently waiting for their return when those elements dropped out of the picture. My thoughts on the first book will probably improve once I finish the rest of the series and the groundwork pays off.
  • edited April 2016
    an on-going series is difficult to trust. I never start them until an end is in sight. or at least a substantial numbers of books have been completed and those books are continuously good to read.

    it's difficult to get a series published for those reasons too. OH - i think i get what you mean by "story-padding" because it IS an on-going series - the author is trying to make sure he not only has enough story created at the beginning to connect back to it in his later novels, but to also try and build trust with the readers that, "Indeed - yes, this story will, in fact, go somewhere." he adds with the 3rd fluff chapter, "somewhere fun!"

    i do try to stick to self contained stories. but, i also favor more young-adult stories too. I think they maneuver around the "story-padding" pitfall pretty well. i think, most likely because and due to experience, adults approach novels with a "hard-science" mentality. either they naturally approach novels with this idea that more information/factual information with a paper trail to prove it as fact - is better OR
    because the expectation of maturity makes them believe more factual, traceable information is better.

    "young-adult" novels seem to escape that pitfall more because their audience has an easier time suspending disbelief - like a "soft science" approach that allows the imagination it fill in the gaps.
  • edited April 2016
    That's interesting. I'm definitely more of a "soft-science" guy, and I probably fall outside the demographic for these epic fantasy books fire that reason. I hear and read a lot of fantasy nerds want a "world they can get lost in", but I'm not in that camp at all. I'd much rather have interesting characters and a good story, even if that means letting the setting and history fade from focus. The setting should be used to help reveal the characters and give context to the story, not the other way around, and it's that inversion of priorities within fantasy that irritates me. I think that's why asoiaf/got is so successful is that while grrm's a top-notch world builder, he also created a damn good characters with a fresh story. Good fantasy needs all three to be used correctly.

    grrm may be falling in that regard with his last two books, however.
  • @O i could help alleviate your compunction. philological knowledge is my shit!
  • I agree - about good fantasy and its needs.

    i bought the GOT 4book-set a few years ago (before HBO picked-up) 1-3 of the books were fucking amazing. 4th book was worthless and the 5th book's released hadn't been announced yet. So i stopped reading the series. didn't finish the 4th. (don't watch the show either )

    i stopped trusting grrm ability to continue the story. and I believe that he would have left the story to rot had HBO not picked it up. cause he STILL doesn't have an end in sight. and I'm positive that the whole thing could have been wrapped up from the 3rd book. I think GOT should have been a 5 book series. 1-3 are perfect - and some of 4 is definitely needed because we learn more about Jamie Lannister.

    but - the 4th book should have been building towards the war with Dragons and White Walkers.
    Tryion, John Snow, and Daenerys should have been on their dragons by mid 5th book and right as the whitewalkers were reach total HELL quality - dragon fire should have laid that whole business to rest.

    Daenerys would have sex with her 1/2 brothers: giving birth to the new line of Targaryens and the world and magic would thrive again.

    your welcome grrm.
  • the series was original going to be a trilogy, and it began to grow in the telling. What started as a garden, a story which organically grows in the telling, has become a cancer, hemorrhaging stories without any end in sight.
  • i hope the white walkers win
  • edited April 2016
    JK Rowling managed the growth-rate of harry potter rather well, in the grand scale of things, by structuring the story around the perennial arcs of Harry going to Hogwarts. The brilliance of that series is in the way each book (until the last few) were serialized stories that felt self-contained and episodic. The last two books established a specific through-line that ties together a larger story that was happening behind the scenes.

    i'll shut up about childish fairy tales now ;p
  • +1

    those books ignited my love for stories
  • yup. those books are still great. i was reading them well into my college years and have re-read a few of them (my favorites) since. still fucking great.
  • i think it's a bit of a weird thing that J.K. Rowlings said she regrets putting Hermione and Ron together. The movie version of Ron - I understand. but the Ron in the books is a fucking G, he's just overshadowed by his poverty which has made him self-conscious. and then when he overcomes that stigmas after his major wins in quidditch - he realizes that he's still overshadowed by H. Potter.

    the in-book character Ron is in a subtle turmoil through the length of the series because no matter how great he is (and he is fucking great!) he can't outrun Potter's shadow. Rowling's touches on that lightly in the books-but so lightly they left that aspect out of the movies till the Deathly Hollows.

    the Hermione in the series knows how great Ron is regardless Potter's shadow (and she's already super into athletes and Ron's a great athlete.) so it makes sense.

    movie-wise it doesn't make sense. but in the movies, a lot of dialogue that was Ron's in the books are given to Harry's character instead. and Ron is just this weird doof of comic relief.
  • edited April 2016
    AND

    Essentially, Harry has all the knowledge of Voldermort. Like, as a child or a teen into a young man- magic knowledge-wise - Harry has the ability and knowledge of a great and deadly wizards + himself. One of the most powerful ever and All of that knowledge is his - should he unlock it. hell, some of it just bleeds through into his inherent knowledge (parseltongue).

    That's going to consistently interfere with and enable great things and possible great stories as H. Potter gets older and works as an Aurora.

    So much more stuff that could be written about with the Same characters.

    also - why not Harry and Luna. makes sense. Ginny Weasly is the mistake!
  • damn yall bought that fantasy.

    anyone read ovid or horace?
  • nah - Hedwig had to die. She was his safety blanket. his first and constant friend. It was a signifying death for Potter and, more importantly, the audience that grounded all in the certainty of a changed and chaotic world.

    it was well placed storytelling. the senselessness of the death made it all the more impacting.
  • haven't read them. what's interesting about them?
  • edited April 2016
    they were friends of octavias caesar
  • oedipus would've fit in in Westeros
  • I think Harry should have died. I think that would of been the perfect ending
  • I really like the boy who lived interpretation.
  • definitely. fuck yea! i love the idea of sacrificing his own death to kill Voldemort. it would have played into the ending of everything so fucking well. a real philosophical conundrum for Harry. Let himself be killed (suicide) and join the people who loves in death. and since Voldemort would kill a bunch of more people he loved - he could see all of them too eventually. or
    kill Voldemort and live forever as a superior, unstoppable wizard. He could be with the unicorns and all the magical creatures of the world, but never with his loved ones again once they died.

    that ending would have been very Tolkien-est. maybe it could still happen? Maybe Harry will age to the age at which Voldemort was when he created the spells that made the prophecy fruition, and then Harry will stop aging and live forever.

    it could still happen. FUCK FUCK FUCK!!!! I'm writing some fan fiction!!!!
  • I was not allowed to read Harry Potter because my parents believed all that stuff about it being satanic. was obsessed with Lord of the Rings in grade school and still have a fondness for it even though I acknowledge that it sort of ruined fantasy. any Watership Down fans on here?
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